لما وضعت being بعد as في هذا النص ؟

[عماد الدين شاهين]

لدي جملة واود ان اعرف سبب وضع being بعد as
الجملة هي we find it convenient to treat anything spelled with the same sequence of letters and pronounced with the same sequence of letters in a standard dialect as being the same word.

هل اصل being هنا it is
اعني هل تم حذغ it is الفاعل والفعل وتم وضع being محل is

واعتقد هذا ما يسمي ب deep structure in syntax
الله اعلم
افيديونا يا اخوان تراني اطور نفسي بالكتابة فاسال عن كل شاردة وواردة

اخوكم عماد الدين

[Jihad Al-Jayyousi]

لدي جملة واود ان اعرف سبب وضع being بعد as
الجملة هي we find it convenient to treat anything spelled with the same sequence of letters and pronounced with the same sequence of letters in a standard dialect as being the same word.
هل اصل being هنا it is
اعني هل تم حذغ it is الفاعل والفعل وتم وضع being محل is
واعتقد هذا ما يسمي ب deep structure in syntax
الله اعلم
افيديونا يا اخوان تراني اطور نفسي بالكتابة فاسال عن كل شاردة وواردة
اخوكم عماد الدين


عزيزي عماد الدين بارك الله فيه،

أعتقد بأن كاتب الجملة أعلاه استخدم كلمة being بدلاً من as if it were وكليهما تركيبينِ مألوفين في الإنجليزية.

أما حديثك عن deep structure و surface structure ، فلا أعتقد أن هذا واردٌ هنا حيث أن معنى الجملة واضح ولا مجال لعدم الفهم.
ولتوضيح الفرق بين deep structure و surface structure وجدتُ لك قصة قصيرة ذات مغزى توضح الفرق. القصة تقول:


Our family adopted 3 Samoan sisters 6+ years ago. It has been very interesting watching them grow up intermingled with our biological children. One of the differences has been their general difficulty in understanding deep structure concepts. I don’t know if this is because of them being uprooted from their culture, or their having to learn a new language at a very early age or maybe them not being read to much during their early years… Regardless it is something they are working through
.
The following is a great example of our girls and deep structure vs surface structure
.
A few days ago, we were all watching an episode of The Andy Griffith Show. The show was about a young man learning to take responsibility for his own actions (the moral of the story). The young man’s dad was a very powerful politician in the state of North Carolina and had bailed him out of every poor decision he had ever made. He gets in an accident in Mayberry and is arrested by Sheriff Taylor for hit-and-run. While arrested he goes fishing with Andy and Opie, has Sunday dinner with them etc… While with the Taylor’s, Andy makes Opie pay for a window he breaks while playing baseball. The young man thinks Andy is being too hard on Opie but Andy tells him, “Opie has to learn to pay for broken windows and stand on his own two feet”.

At the end of the episode, the politician’s lawyer coerces the person the young man hit in order to get the young man out of jail. The young man decides to stay in jail and finish his sentence saying “tell my Dad I broke a window and have to stand on my own two feet”.

My Samoan girls did not understand his statement because the young man didn’t break a window. They didn’t get the deep structure concept of taking responsibility. They only saw the surface structure of the examples of breaking a window and wrecking a car.

The understanding of deep structure is what we are all after. Taking responsibility is an abstract concept while paying for broken windows and cars are concrete examples of this abstract concept. Exposing our kids to as many concrete examples and helping them understand the underlying abstract concepts is one of the primary goals of the classroom and must be done over and over for them to begin looking for the abstract concepts being taught.

لك تحياتي، وأرجو أن تكون قد وجدتَ بدولي بعض الماء! (Deep Structure)!

جهاد الجيوسي

[عماد الدين شاهين]

بارك الله فيك دكتور جهاد

احسنت التوضيح بارك الله فيك ووجدت الدلو ممتلئ

تقبل شكري

[كرم زعرور]

أود أن أسألَ الأستاذ جهاد:
هل جاء ردك أن as if it were هو المقصود
أم أنك تقصد as if it was أرجو الإيضاح.
ولك شكري وامتناني, أستاذي الكريم.

[احمدعبدالسلام]

يالها من قصة رائعة يا استاذ جهاد

توضيح أكثر من رائع

[أحمد فتحي الفيومي]

أود أن أسألَ الأستاذ جهاد:
هل جاء ردك أن as if it were هو المقصود
أم أنك تقصد as if it was أرجو الإيضاح.
ولك شكري وامتناني, أستاذي الكريم.

سأنوب فى الرفض بدلا من أخي جهاد وان كنت أراه سوء أدب منى ولكن لطول المدة سأرد منتظرا التعليق من أخى جهاد وقت دخوله وحتى يستفيد الاخ السائل
as if it were هذا ما يقصده أخى جهاد والجملة صحيحة مائة بالمائة وتسمى هذه الحالة subjunctive case أو subjunctive mood وهذه أحدى الحالات وفيها يعامل المفرد معاملة الجمع واذا أردت معرفة جميع الحالات فأرجو الرد أخى السائل وسنجيبك بإسهاب ان شاء الله

[Jihad Al-Jayyousi]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

أشكر الأخوة: كرم زعرور على استفساره أو سسؤاله؛ الأخ أحمد عبد السلام على كريم رده، وكذلك الأخ الكريم أحمد فتحي الفيومي على رده الجميل نيابةً عني.
هذا وأعتذر عن تأخري في الرد هنا حيث أنني كنت في إجازة ولم تُتَحْ لي فرصة المشاركة في المنتديات.

لقد جاء رد الأخ أحمد فتحي الفيومي في مكانه وأصاب، فشكراً له.

لزيادة التوضيح أرتأيتُ أن أضيف هنا ما قد يفيد من لديهِ الفضول والوقت لمعرفة المزيد حيث يجد الزائر رابطينِ وبعض الشرح للظاهرة اللغوية التي نحن بصددها وهي subjunctive case

مع تحياتي للجميع

جهاد الجيوسي

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=50929
http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst2350_As-if-it-was-were---If-I-was-were-to--.aspx

subjunctive

The subjunctive is a set of forms of a verb which express states that do not exist. There are two sorts of subjunctive in English: the present subjunctive and the past subjunctive. In form, the present subjunctive is the same as the infinitive, so the present subjunctive of to be is: I be, you be, he/she/it be, we be, they be. There is no s on the end of the third person singular: he go; she leave; it have.
The present subjunctive has three uses in modern English. First, it follows verbs, nouns or adjectives that express the idea of command, suggestion or possibility: I suggested that he leave; It is my recommendation that she not be appointed; It is fitting that she resign.

This use of the present subjunctive is common in American English. In British English it is more usual to use should: I suggested that he should leave, but it seems that the present subjunctive may be on the increase.

Second, it is used in formal English in clauses beginning with words such as if; although; whether and lest: If that be the case, there is little more we can do; Tie her up securely, lest she escape.

This use of the present subjunctive tends to sound stilted and old-fashioned, and in everyday speech and writing the indicative is usually used instead: If that is the case..., but again American English uses it more readily than British English.

Third, it is used in certain fixed phrases, such as far be it from me; be that as it may; God save the Queen; come what may; suffice it to say; heaven forbid; perish the thought.

The past subjunctive effectively relates only to the verb to be, where it takes the form were. It is used to express hypothetical states, and comes after the verbs wish and suppose, conjunctions such as if; if only; as; though; whether, and the phrases would rather and would that: I wish she were here; If I were you, I'd resign; Would that he were still alive.

It is widely used in everyday English, but in non-formal contexts it is often replaced by was in the first and third person singular: I wish she was here. In formal or literary English, the order of if-clauses can be reversed and the if omitted: Were I you, I'd resign.
We use "if it were" for unreal conditions. Example: If it (gold) were cheap, everyone would have it. [Gold is, in fact, NOT cheap so the condition is UNREAL] we use "if it was" for uncertain conditions. Example: If it (the shirt) was cheap, it was a good buy. [In this case, we don't know if the shirt was cheap. It may have been cheap and, if that is real, the shirt was a good buy]

[أحمد فتحي الفيومي]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
أشكر الأخوة: كرم زعرور على استفساره أو سسؤاله؛ الأخ أحمد عبد السلام على كريم رده، وكذلك الأخ الكريم أحمد فتحي الفيومي على رده الجميل نيابةً عني.
هذا وأعتذر عن تأخري في الرد هنا حيث أنني كنت في إجازة ولم تُتَحْ لي فرصة المشاركة في المنتديات.
لقد جاء رد الأخ أحمد فتحي الفيومي في مكانه وأصاب، فشكراً له.
لزيادة التوضيح أرتأيتُ أن أضيف هنا ما قد يفيد من لديهِ الفضول والوقت لمعرفة المزيد حيث يجد الزائر رابطينِ وبعض الشرح للظاهرة اللغوية التي نحن بصددها وهي subjunctive case
مع تحياتي للجميع
جهاد الجيوسي
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=50929
http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst2350_As-if-it-was-were---If-I-was-were-to--.aspx
subjunctive
The subjunctive is a set of forms of a verb which express states that do not exist. There are two sorts of subjunctive in English: the present subjunctive and the past subjunctive. In form, the present subjunctive is the same as the infinitive, so the present subjunctive of to be is: I be, you be, he/she/it be, we be, they be. There is no s on the end of the third person singular: he go; she leave; it have.
The present subjunctive has three uses in modern English. First, it follows verbs, nouns or adjectives that express the idea of command, suggestion or possibility: I suggested that he leave; It is my recommendation that she not be appointed; It is fitting that she resign.
This use of the present subjunctive is common in American English. In British English it is more usual to use should: I suggested that he should leave, but it seems that the present subjunctive may be on the increase.
Second, it is used in formal English in clauses beginning with words such as if; although; whether and lest: If that be the case, there is little more we can do; Tie her up securely, lest she escape.
This use of the present subjunctive tends to sound stilted and old-fashioned, and in everyday speech and writing the indicative is usually used instead: If that is the case..., but again American English uses it more readily than British English.
Third, it is used in certain fixed phrases, such as far be it from me; be that as it may; God save the Queen; come what may; suffice it to say; heaven forbid; perish the thought.
The past subjunctive effectively relates only to the verb to be, where it takes the form were. It is used to express hypothetical states, and comes after the verbs wish and suppose, conjunctions such as if; if only; as; though; whether, and the phrases would rather and would that: I wish she were here; If I were you, I'd resign; Would that he were still alive.
It is widely used in everyday English, but in non-formal contexts it is often replaced by was in the first and third person singular: I wish she was here. In formal or literary English, the order of if-clauses can be reversed and the if omitted: Were I you, I'd resign.
We use "if it were" for unreal conditions. Example: If it (gold) were cheap, everyone would have it. [Gold is, in fact, NOT cheap so the condition is UNREAL] we use "if it was" for uncertain conditions. Example: If it (the shirt) was cheap, it was a good buy. [In this case, we don't know if the shirt was cheap. It may have been cheap and, if that is real, the shirt was a good buy]
بارك الله فيك أستاذي جهاد وهذه شهادة أعتز بها